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10 000 Hours Rule Options · View
Decentric
Posted: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 6:53:36 PM

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In most pursuits it has been mooted that a person needs 10 000 hours of practice before one is good enough to achieve excellence.

In a footballer's career, one needs to reach this target at a relatively young age, because the life of a footballer is a short one.

If a player plays football from ages 7 to 22, over 15 years, one needs to accrue 10 000 hours practice.

This amounts to 667 hours per year.

Over a 48 week year this amounts to 13 hours per week.



At primary school if one plays every lunch and recess, one can accrue about 5 hours practice per week over 40 weeks - 200 hours.

One coaching session with a club over a 20 week season can amount to another 20-30 hours per year.

Another 50 minutes can be added for a game per week. Over a season this may amount to 16 hours.

Futsal can take up another 10-30 hours.

This is still under 250 hours per year.

Maybe this is why the elite programme model has been conceived by FFA? For players to accumulate 600-700 hours of practice per year.

Edited by Decentric: 17/1/2012 06:54:28 PM
f1dave
Posted: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 6:55:31 PM



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Joined: 3/12/2008
Posts: 7,153
You'd imagine that hours played would increase dramatically if we had street soccer courts ala Europe (or abject poverty, ala Africa/South America?)



The true fan ridicules the bandwagoner.
The true fan blames the lesser fan for demanding entertainment.
The true fan blames other true fans for daring to criticise their club or FFA.
The true fan wonders why, after all is said and done, he is attending a match alone.
Decentric
Posted: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 7:00:45 PM

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Joined: 4/26/2007
Posts: 6,829
f1dave wrote:
You'd imagine that hours played would increase dramatically if we had street soccer courts ala Europe (or abject poverty, ala Africa/South America?)



I'm not sure it would, Dave. I'd like to think you are right though.

The lure of computer games seems to be a strong disincentive to keep kids inside.

The kids in Africa and South America (Brazil could be changing as it is becoming wealthier quite quickly) may not have the choice of as many other pursuits as Western kids.

Edited by Decentric: 17/1/2012 07:17:59 PM
krones3
Posted: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 7:02:28 PM



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Joined: 3/1/2008
Posts: 1,536
Decentric wrote:
In most pursuits it has been mooted that a person needs 10 000 hours of practice before one is good enough to achieve excellence.

In a footballer's career, one needs to reach this target at a relatively young age, because the life of a footballer is a short one.

If a player plays football from ages 7 to 22, over 15 years, one needs to accrue 10 000 hours practice.

This amounts to 667 hours per year.

Over a 48 week year this amounts to 13 hours per week.



At primary school if one plays every lunch and recess, one can accrue about 5 hours practice per week over 40 weeks - 200 hours.

One coaching session with a club over a 20 week season can amount to another 20-30 hours per year.

Another 50 minutes can be added for a game per week. Over a season this may amount to 16 hours.

Futsal can take up another 10-30 hours.

This is still under 250 hours per year.

Maybe this is why the elite programme model has been conceived by FFA? For players to accumulate 600-700 hours of practice per year.

Edited by Decentric: 17/1/2012 06:54:28 PM

I agree but there is way too much practice and nowhere near enough play.
International players have often said that we practice too much and play too little.
It was put "we practice to play not to practice."


Edited by krones3: 17/1/2012 07:02:47 PM
rewdewa
Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:10:34 AM



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Joined: 8/27/2008
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FFA should use the ridiculous amounts of money we pay them to play Football and use it for street soccer courts
BusbyBabe
Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:38:53 AM



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I study coaching and this is still a prevalant theory but has been proven to be no more than just an opinion that will benefit the athlete. However, to become an elite athlete the 10,000 hour rule isn't a must.


Arthur
Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:10:30 AM



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Joined: 8/13/2007
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BusbyBabe wrote:
I study coaching and this is still a prevalant theory but has been proven to be no more than just an opinion that will benefit the athlete. However, to become an elite athlete the 10,000 hour rule isn't a must.


One interesting argument is what happens if a player does 20,000 hours of training in those 15 years? Maradona? Cruyff? Pele?

Will a swimmer get faster by training twice as many hours as his next best competitior?

How many hours of training can any athlete do in a day, a week, a month, a year a life time?

The 10,000 hour rule also takes into account "deleiberate practice" as key part of it. The process of repitition to develop perfection.

Quote:
Psychologist K. Anders Ericsson, a professor of Psychology at Florida State University, has been a pioneer in researching deliberate practice and what it means. According to Ericsson:

"People believe that because expert performance is qualitatively different from normal performance the expert performer must be endowed with characteristics qualitatively different from those of normal adults." "We agree that expert performance is qualitatively different from normal performance and even that expert performers have characteristics and abilities that are qualitatively different from or at least outside the range of those of normal adults. However, we deny that these differences are immutable, that is, due to innate talent. Only a few exceptions, most notably height, are genetically prescribed. Instead, we argue that the differences between expert performers and normal adults reflect a life-long period of deliberate effort to improve performance in a specific domain."[3]


We don't have the time or the resources though to train kids every day 2 hours a day.

Which is why we have to work smart. As an example our Head Junior Coach works on the principal that each player should get a minimum 600 touches of the ball each session at three sessions a week 40 weeks a year that 72,000 touches minimum.

Now many will say 600 touches a session is easy to do in a session. Well trust me its not. If you run a session get some one to count how many touches one player gets in a session. For poor coaches a player may get 100 touches per session, even at three sessions a week for 40 weeks that equates to 12,000 touches of the ball. This group would need to train 6 times more to get the same amount of touches.

What we don't have here "street football" which is a problem in first world nations, is that kids learn the game without adult interference.
WHile even worse is that the pool of youngsters with high level "motor skills" is steadily decreasing with our sedantary lifestyles. And this will be the frontline battle for all sports in the comming years.
Of course there is even an argument starting that claims that European Football Acadamies cannot produce World Class players (I would say not enough)because they don't have the kids with the necessary motor skill, playing skills compared to 30 years agao, thus the reliance on African and South American players.



"If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there." Brian Clough on the importance of passing to feet.
"If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage, then he should be." Bill Shankly
"Football is simple. But the hardest thing is to play football in a simple way." Johan Cruyff


skeptic
Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:42:27 AM

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Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 3,686
Arthur wrote:


What we don't have here "street football" which is a problem in first world nations, is that kids learn the game without adult interference.
WHile even worse is that the pool of youngsters with high level "motor skills" is steadily decreasing with our sedantary lifestyles. And this will be the frontline battle for all sports in the comming years.
Of course there is even an argument starting that claims that European Football Acadamies cannot produce World Class players (I would say not enough)because they don't have the kids with the necessary motor skill, playing skills compared to 30 years agao, thus the reliance on African and South American players.


We tend to forget how enormously different our kids lifestyles have become since we were kids ourselves and the difference to 3rd world/developing countries has only multiplied. When child obesity becomes a major health concern, it shows how different things are.
Arthur
Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:06:58 AM



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Joined: 8/13/2007
Posts: 3,237
Location: In the Doghouse
Quote:
Athletics Australia's high performance manager Eric Hollingsworth says there has been a decline in the competency of "young kids from five to 18".

"The general level of skills across all the sports I have worked in shows that. The core skills are down: simple skills like catching, throwing and jumping."

Hollingsworth says the quality of the very best athletes remains the same, "but where 20 years ago there would have been 25, now you only get 10".

That loss of depth will eventually hurt Australia internationally, if it hasn't already, he warns. "At the very top of the tree we have lost a critical mass of athletes who would keep the best on their toes.

"That means our top athletes are not as hardened as they need to be to succeed in international competition. In the underage group, if they don't achieve a degree of competency in sport, once they feel they are bad at it, they tend not to want to do it any more.

"And I think that loss of competency will flow into coaching, officiating and volunteers, where people don't feel they will have the skills to help."


Interesting article regarding skill competency.



"If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there." Brian Clough on the importance of passing to feet.
"If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage, then he should be." Bill Shankly
"Football is simple. But the hardest thing is to play football in a simple way." Johan Cruyff


Arthur
Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 1:36:39 PM



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Joined: 8/13/2007
Posts: 3,237
Location: In the Doghouse
Different point of view on the 10,000 hours principle.

http://www.sportscoachingbrain.com/10000-hours-champion/#more-2354


"If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there." Brian Clough on the importance of passing to feet.
"If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage, then he should be." Bill Shankly
"Football is simple. But the hardest thing is to play football in a simple way." Johan Cruyff


General Ashnak
Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:23:25 PM



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Joined: 9/22/2008
Posts: 17,747
Location: rAdelaide
Arthur wrote:
Quote:
Athletics Australia's high performance manager Eric Hollingsworth says there has been a decline in the competency of "young kids from five to 18".

"The general level of skills across all the sports I have worked in shows that. The core skills are down: simple skills like catching, throwing and jumping."

Hollingsworth says the quality of the very best athletes remains the same, "but where 20 years ago there would have been 25, now you only get 10".

That loss of depth will eventually hurt Australia internationally, if it hasn't already, he warns. "At the very top of the tree we have lost a critical mass of athletes who would keep the best on their toes.

"That means our top athletes are not as hardened as they need to be to succeed in international competition. In the underage group, if they don't achieve a degree of competency in sport, once they feel they are bad at it, they tend not to want to do it any more.

"And I think that loss of competency will flow into coaching, officiating and volunteers, where people don't feel they will have the skills to help."


Interesting article regarding skill competency.

This is the one thing that Chips just does not get. He always talks about the cream being there etc. with out understanding that less = less and more equals more.

Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:
Quote:
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right.
10 points if you know where it comes from Wink

Terry Pratchett wrote:
The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.

Laureano Ruiz wrote:
Let us say that you and I coach two teams with kids that are 10, 11, and 12 years old and all are about equally good. You try to teach them to play good football, a passing game and with tactical basics while I tell mine to only play long balls and try to shoot. I can assure you that [at first] I will always win against you, by using your mistakes. Break a bad pass and goal. If we however continue with the same training methods during a three year period, you will most likely win every game against us. Your players will have learned how to play while mine haven’t. That’s how easy it is.
BusbyBabe
Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:28:49 PM



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Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 11,050
Location: Sydney
That cartoon.


General Ashnak
Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:43:05 PM



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Joined: 9/22/2008
Posts: 17,747
Location: rAdelaide
BusbyBabe wrote:
That cartoon.

Which one Wink I remember it from the comics anyways...
Hint:

I used to own one of these before some low life stole it.

Terry Pratchett wrote:
The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.

Laureano Ruiz wrote:
Let us say that you and I coach two teams with kids that are 10, 11, and 12 years old and all are about equally good. You try to teach them to play good football, a passing game and with tactical basics while I tell mine to only play long balls and try to shoot. I can assure you that [at first] I will always win against you, by using your mistakes. Break a bad pass and goal. If we however continue with the same training methods during a three year period, you will most likely win every game against us. Your players will have learned how to play while mine haven’t. That’s how easy it is.
thupercoach
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 4:48:18 AM

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Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 8,802
Arthur wrote:
Different point of view on the 10,000 hours principle.

http://www.sportscoachingbrain.com/10000-hours-champion/#more-2354
May be a valid point for sports where skill level isn't as vital as in football.
Gregory Parker
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 3:45:28 PM

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Joined: 1/11/2011
Posts: 65
Success is over simplified in sport using the 10,000 hour rule. Please read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell.
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